Propun un nou topic pentru ce este cel mai fierbinte moment din istoria procesoarelor: „Procesoarele Dual” Core (cu doua nuclee). Se mai discuta si in topicul Intel vs. AMD – the topic … the poll , prefer totusi sa se faca un pic de curatenie si sa organizam discutiile.
Kingston DDR 333 512MB x 2 (CL 2.5-3-3-7). Se putea folosi totusi DDR 400 pentru a se arata performanta maxima.
– Surprinzator, solutia dual-core 2.2Ghz este mai performanta decat 2x single-core 2.2Ghz, in ciuda faptului ca accesul la memorie este „impartit” la procesoarele dual-core.
– O configuratie 2 x Dual Core (adica 4 nuclee fizice) este total inutila pe Windows XP / Windows 64 deoarece ele stiu sa gestioneze maxim 2 procesoare fizice + 2 logice (gen HT de la Intel). Rezultatele proaste in configuratia 2 x dual core dovedesc acest lucru.
– In unele aplicatii trecerea de la single la dual core aduce cu sine un bonus de aproape 100% performanta, arhitectura K8 aratandu-si „coltii” in acest moment.
P.S. NO Flame
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
Propun ca acest thread sa fie facut sticky, sa il vada toti cand vor sa discute ceva pe aceasta tema, sa nu se mai imprastie prin tot forumul opinii referitoare la acest subiect.
„Intel’s director of chipset marketing Sunil Kumar: “First dual-core desktop processors will utilize the existing FSB architecture operating at 800MHz, but their second and third generations will have faster FSBs.” ”
” Q: Since Intel is going to dual-core and then multi-core processors, higher bus bandwidth becomes more critical. How does the company plan to improve the FSB (front side bus) technology for the desktop processors?
A: So far, our plan is to scale the FSB frequency as next generations of dual-core desktop processors come out. At first, they will utilize the existing FSB architecture operating at 800MHz, but second- and third-generation dual-core desktop processors will have faster FSBs. There are many levers to improve system performance. Opening up system bandwidth on the chipset is one way as more devices interact with the PC. On the CPU side you can increase cache, for increased Hyper-Threading capabilities or additional cores.”
Don’t piss me off. i’m running out of places to hide the bodies.
Cei de la AMD nu pomenesc nimic de aceasta platforma in cazul procesoarelor dual-core.Pe 940 se face un update de BIOS,pe 939 un mare semn de intrebare.
Tot un update de bios se va face si pentru 939. Compatibilitatea cu socket 939/940 este un atu in strategia AMD Dual Core. In principiu cine are acum o placa 939 va putea face upgrade la un procesor Dual-Core Desktop.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
Ramane totusi o problema nerezolvata DDR2.Poate ca update-ul de BIOS va rezolva aceasta situatie dar cu siguranta pentru DDR2 va fi nevoie de o alta placa de baza si asta costa..
DDR2 pe moment nu este necesar pentru K8, acesta avand nevoie de memorie cu latente cat mai scazute fata de frecvente si latente mari specifice DDR2. Urmatorul pas in evolutia K8 va fi un core cu pipeline marit ce ii va permite obtinerea de frecvente superioare si care va beneficia mai bine de DDR2. In acel moment se va schimba si socket-ul (nume de cod M2 si va avea probabil peste 1200 pini), data de lansare este undeva prin sfarsit 2006-inceput 2007.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
INTEL ROADMAPS seen by the INQ show that when Intel introduces its Presler 65 nanometre dual core processors in the first quarter of next year, the chips will be named the 9XX series. Intel expects to launch several flavours of these processors, which will have 2 times 2MB of cache, and will initially aim them at the „performance” end of the market.
These Pentium Ds will come with Vanderpool VT virtualisation technology, use the Broadwater chipset, include Intel GbE LAN, and the next generation of AMT.
Clock speeds will be de-emphasised – the 95X will clock at 3.40GHz, while the other three members of this family will have clock speeds of 3.20GHz, 3GHz, and 2.8GHz. All will use the 800MHz front side bus.
The processors set for launch in the second quarter, that is to say the dual core 840, the 830 and the 820 will cost $530, $316 and $241 respectively. The 670 processor, a single core 3.8GHz Pentium 4 with hyperthreading will cost $850 when it’s launched.
Intel is readying a series of price cuts on the 6XX family in mid-August, with the 670 falling to $605, the 660 to $400, the 650 to $273, the 640 to $224 and the 630 to $180. These have clock speeds of 3.8GHz, 3.6GHz, 3.4GHz, 3.2GHz and 3GHz.
Intel is now expected to launch the 351/350 Celeron at the end of June. This has a 533MHz bus, 256K of L2 cache, and clocks at 3.2GHz. It will cost $125 at launch. µ
Ceva este ciudat totusi. Proces de constructie 65nm, consum de curent automat mai redus si frecventa maxima este tot 3,4Ghz ?
. Ma asteptam sa mai creasca un pic frecventele fata de Dual Core 90nm.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
Ce se intampla acum sunt decizii luate prin 2002-2003.Din pacate nu erau cele mai bune dupa cum se vede.Anyway conducerea Intel a fost schimbata fundamental , mai nou departamentul tehnic > marketing.
Caz nefericit a fost Tejas.Se stia in 2002 ca va avea un consum incendiar ( circa 150w 3.2 Ghz , 170w 3.6Ghz ) si totusi proiectul a mers pana in 2004 in loc sa fie abandonat instantaneu.
Nu este nici un secret, dupa introducerea procesoarelor Opteron Dual Core, este randul Athlon 64 Dual Core pe socket 939. Acesta a primit un nume official: AMD Athlon 64 X2 si au apraut si ceva rating-uri:
Nu se stie inca daca procesoarele vor avea 512KB sau 1MB L2 cache/core.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
Daca se mentine chestia cu PR-ul, e o mare prostie dupa mine. Capacitatea in aplicatii single-threaded nu are cum sa creasca. La nivel arhitectural nu stiu ce poate fi schimbat. Cache-ul nu e shared, deci un singur core nu poate sa foloseasca mai mult de 1Mb L2 cache. Iar un A64 la 2.4Ghz cu 1Mb L2 cache este un A64 4000+. Insa vom vedea cum sta treaba mai incolo.
Chestia cu PR 4800+ poate fi justificata doar intr-un singur caz: memoria L2 va fi shared, si asta inseamna ca in aplicatiile single thread 1 Core va avea la dispozitie 2MB L2 cache. Totate indiciile indica spre acestu lucru si este posibil ca Opteron sa nu aiba shared cache din moment ce mai toate aplicatiile rulate pe un server sunt multithread (cache sharing neavand nici un rost pe Opteron).
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
Corbu , la K8 cacheul L2 nu este shared.Dintre procesoarele pt dektop&mobile doar Yonah are cache L2 shared.
Bagi mana in foc? Altfel mi se par aberante ratingurile alea….nu cred ca ar putea fi chiar asa de „nesimtiti” si sa le umfle fara nici o noima.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
„According to some documents seen by the INQ, the dual core CPUs should work with 955X and 945 chipsets only but I am sure that there will be some workarounds to make the other chipsets work with newer cores eventually. We know for sure that at least Nforce 4 for Intel will support dual cores.”
Interesante vesti. Este normal ca Intel sa incerce sa rezolve „problema Dual-Core” doar printr-un update de BIOS, insa in acest caz, chipset-urile 945 si 955X nu ar mai avea succesul scontat. Practic, tactica AMD a incurcat putin planurile de marketing ale Intel, si anume promovarea unor noi chipset-uri. Oricum, pentru cei care au Intel si vor sa treaca la Dual-Core pe viitor, acest zvon(daca se va adeveri) reprezinta un motiv de bucurie.
Bagi mana in foc? Altfel mi se par aberante ratingurile alea….nu cred ca ar putea fi chiar asa de „nesimtiti” si sa le umfle fara nici o noima.
Daca vrei facem si pariu.
Un shared cache are mai multe avantaje decat cacheuri separate/nucleu , insa este mult mai dificil de proiectat.Din cate stiu doar IBM cu Power 4/5 si SUN cu UltraSparc IV au cache L2 shared.
Asa grait-a Corbu’ //Ceva este ciudat totusi. Proces de constructie 65nm, consum de curent automat mai redus si frecventa maxima este tot 3,4Ghz ?
. Ma asteptam sa mai creasca un pic frecventele fata de Dual Core 90nm.//
Miniaturizarea tehnologiei de fabricare nu inseamna automat frecvente mai mari. De la un anumit punct incolo, apar alte probleme … e clar ca aparitia dual core se datoreaza si acestora, altfel cursa pentru frecvente mai mari continua.
Pana cand nu apare un alt sistem de frabricare, sau un concept de procesor nou, nu cred sa vedem procesoare cu frecvente peste 4000 Mhz. Un concept nou ar putea sa marginalizeze total acceptiunea curenta privind raportul frecventa/performanta.
Chestia cu PR 4800+ poate fi justificata doar intr-un singur caz: memoria L2 va fi shared, si asta inseamna ca in aplicatiile single thread 1 Core va avea la dispozitie 2MB L2 cache.
Chiar si asa, 800 puncte de PR sunt cam multe pentru un plus de 1MB L2. Io zic ca ar trebui sa-l cheme Athlon D 4000+, asa cum Pentium-urile vor fi numite Pentium D (de la dual).
Chestia cu PR 4800+ poate fi justificata doar intr-un singur caz: memoria L2 va fi shared, si asta inseamna ca in aplicatiile single thread 1 Core va avea la dispozitie 2MB L2 cache.
Chiar si asa, 800 puncte de PR sunt cam multe pentru un plus de 1MB L2. Io zic ca ar trebui sa-l cheme Athlon D 4000+, asa cum Pentium-urile vor fi numite Pentium D (de la dual).
Eventual Athlon 64 D 4000+.
Athlon 64 D ar fi cam acelasi lucru cu varianta actuala Athlon 64 x2. Ideea e ca si Intel a renuntat la sufixul 4, iar Smithfield-ul se va chema Pentium D, nu Pentium4 D, tocmai pentru a se deosebi mai bine.
Today Intel officially announced that Alienware, Dell and Velocity Micro launched sales of new PCs and workstations on company´s dual-core processors.
The first dual-core platform includes Intel Pentium XE 840 3.2GHz CPU and Intel® 955X Express chipset.
THE WORLD+DOG already knows that AMD has its Opteron dual-core CPUs ready and that it’s set to launch them tomorrow. But not many know that AMD is launching dual-core desktop CPUs as well.
You do now.
We saw a document in which an AMD official states that it will launch those CPUs tomorrow and that it will brand them AMD Athlon 64 X2 with speed variations of 4200+, 4400+, 4600+ and fastest at 4800+. We don’t know their actual clock speeds.
AMD says production-ready CPUs are now shipping to some leading OEMs and system builders world-wide. General system availability is scheduled for June, we learned.
The chippery will be available for both mobile (Desk top replacement) and desktop computers and feature enhanced virus protection and ‘Cool ‘n’ Quiet’ declocking marchitecture.
Se pare ca Intel are un concurent redutabil pe piata dual core. AMD va fi singurul reprezentant DUAL CORE pe piata serverelor, dar si pe piata mobile (Pentium M Yonah dual-core fiind destul de departe).
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
Un aspect inca necunoscut in ceea ce priveste Dual-Core pentru desktop: pretul. Daca acesta va fi competitiv, AMD este in carti pe segmentul Dual-Core. Vom vedea cel mai probabil maine.
Se pare ca AMD a decis activarea HT(HyperThreading) la procesoarele Dual-Core(cel putin asa sustin cei de la x86-secret).
„By attentively studying the behavior of a Dual Core Athlon 64, we realized that a very interesting characteristic of the upcoming Desktop Dual Core chip from AMD was hidden. In fact, if the K8 marchitecture cannot support the Intel’s HyperThreading (HT) technology, it seems that the CPUID registers of the processor are not of this opinion.
…..
So, It seems that AMD chose to activate the „HyperThreading” bit on those Athlon 64 Desktop CPUs in order to profit from optimizations already done by many programmers for HyperThreading technology. This will make possible for those upcoming Athlon 64 Dual Core to also benefit from work already carried out. For now, we do not know yet if the Dual Core Opterons will also have this bit active.”
Interesanta chestie….totusi, ma intreb de ce nu au activat HT-ul la procesoarele Single-Core.
Din pacate, nu avem parte momentan de A64 Dual-Core la frecvente de 1.8-2Ghz, modele care ar fi accesibile din punct de vedere al pretului. La capitolul performanta AMD sta bine, modelul de top 4800+ neavand concurent din partea Intel pe piata Dual-Core(nici nu cred ca va avea pe 90nm – ar trebui un Smithfield Dual-Core cu doua nuclee tactate la 3.8Ghz sau chiar mai sus poate, lucru care pare posibil doar pe un proces de 65nm). Cateva observatii pro si contra:
-AMD a reusit sa scoata modele Dual-Core pana la 2.4Ghz, ceea ce este un aspect pozitiv in conditiile in care pentru Single Core, frecventa maxima este 2.6Ghz(probabil AMD nu anunta inca Dual-Core la 2.6Ghz din motive de marketing, pozitionand FX55 drept cel mai performant procesor pentru Gaming la ora actuala – nu este exclus sa vedem insa Dual-Core la 2.6Ghz odata cu aparitia lui FX57 – oricum, momentan AMD nu simte presiune din partea Intel pe nici unul dintre cele doua segmente, deci lansarile respective vor avea loc mai incolo).
Interesanta chestie….totusi, ma intreb de ce nu au activat HT-ul la procesoarele Single-Core.
de cand folosesc NW nu mai reusesc sa stau fara el..
Dai un ban dar stai in fata…..
Daca AMD ar veni cu o solutie viabila, altfel ar sta lucrurile. Asa se intampla cand nu ai concurenti seriosi pe piata mobile(cel putin din punct de vedere al vanzarilor).
Din contra, HT-ul este gratis pentru AMD. Intel si AMD au semnat acum multi ani un acord care le permite sa foloseasca tehnologiile „adversarului”. Astfel Intel este liber sa adatpeze 64 BIT, NX-Bit, etc, iar AMD are tot dreptul sa implementeze HT daca are nevoie. In lipsa acestui acord, iesea de mult praf si pulbere prin tribunale.
Singura eventuala „problema” care ramane este cea morala si de imagine: cine copiaza pe cine? Totusi in ziua de astazi se pare ca nu prea mai reprezinta un obstacol, goana dupa bani fiind la putere.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
La preturile alea vor fi de neatins de 99% din userii acestui forum si din Romania in general. Brusc Intel nu mai pare sa aiba asa preturi indecente
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
La preturile alea vor fi de neatins de 99% din userii acestui forum si din Romania in general. Brusc Intel nu mai pare sa aiba asa preturi indecente
Modelele la 2.2Ghz respectiv 2.4Ghz sunt considerate modele de top si nu vor avea concurenta din partea Intel pentru moment, asa cum am mai spus-o. Vor fi lansate cu siguranta si modele la 1.8Ghz respectiv 2Ghz la preturi competitive. Un Dual-Core la 2Ghz este pe aceeasi treapta de performanta cu un Intel Dual Core la 3.2Ghz(varianta cu 2x1Mb L2 cache este chiar mai performanta).
Later edit: Am parcurs review-ul celor de la Anandtech si pot sa spun ca lucrurile stau exact cum m-am asteptat in ceea ce priveste performanta, ba chiar am fost surprins in mod placut. Trecerea la DDR2 va insemna un pas inainte. Lucrurile arata extrem de bine pentru AMD. Pretul este momentan problema, insa eu sunt de parere ca vom avea si modele mai ieftine.
„On the desktop side, we are extremely excited about the Athlon 64 X2. The 4400+ we compared here today had no problem competing with and outperforming Intel’s fastest dual core CPUs in most cases, and at a price of $581 the 4400+ is the more reasonably priced of the X2 CPUs. ”
„What’s quite impressive is how competitive the Athlon 64 X2 is across the board. With the Pentium D we had to give up a noticeable amount of single threaded performance (compared to Intel’s top of the line Pentium 4 CPUs) in order to get better multithreaded/multitasking performance, but with AMD you don’t have to make that sacrifice. Everything from gaming to compiling performance on the Athlon 64 X2 4400+ was extremely solid. In multithreaded/multitasking environments the Athlon 64 X2 is even more impressive; video encoding is no longer an issue on AMD platforms – you no longer have to make a performance decision between great overall performance or great media encoding performance, AMD delivers both with the Athlon 64 X2. Also keep in mind that the performance preview we gave of the Athlon 64 X2 today is actually a very conservative estimate, the shipping Athlon 64 X2 CPUs will run with regular DDR memory and with much faster motherboards – meaning you should be prepared to be impressed even further down the road.”
AMD’s dual-core Opteron processors are extremely well executed on all fronts, based on what we’ve seen. AMD’s dual-core design has a technical elegance that Intel’s can’t match, and that design brings superior performance. @
Interesanta chestie….totusi, ma intreb de ce nu au activat HT-ul la procesoarele Single-Core.
Din cate am inteles eu din articol e vorba doar de un flag, un flag care afirma ca procesorul e capabil de hyperthreading. E o miscare interesanta(de geniu as spune) din partea AMD, avand un procesor dual core care e de fapt capabil de multithreading real e clar ca e capabil si de hyperthreading(care e un fake multithreading). Activand acel flag aplicatiile optimizate HT(initial optimizate pt procesoare Intel) vor functiona in regim HT si pe AMD dual core, deci AMD va beneficia de un bonus de performanta de pe urma optimizarilor facute pentru procesoare Intel. Asta numesc eu sa folosesti armele inamicului impotriva sa.
sa zicem ca Intel a avut si are mai multa nevoie de Ht decat AMD datorita faptului ca P4 in deosebi prescott are un pipeline mult mai lung. HT’ul ajuta intr-o masura destul de semnificativa procesorul in multithreading.
pt ca tzeava se descarca mult mai repede.
Oare cum s-ar descurca un Dothan cu facilitatile pe care le are P4 ? Pentru ca, folosind un bus de 533 MHz, fara Dual channel sau HT, reuseste sa se bata cu P4 la frecvente cu ~50% mai mari ? Si se pare ca momentan detine si recordul la super pi 1M.
Procesoare MULTI-CORE
Propun un nou topic pentru ce este cel mai fierbinte moment din istoria procesoarelor: „Procesoarele Dual” Core (cu doua nuclee). Se mai discuta si in topicul Intel vs. AMD – the topic … the poll , prefer totusi sa se faca un pic de curatenie si sa organizam discutiile.
Kingston DDR 333 512MB x 2 (CL 2.5-3-3-7). Se putea folosi totusi DDR 400 pentru a se arata performanta maxima.
– Surprinzator, solutia dual-core 2.2Ghz este mai performanta decat 2x single-core 2.2Ghz, in ciuda faptului ca accesul la memorie este „impartit” la procesoarele dual-core.
– O configuratie 2 x Dual Core (adica 4 nuclee fizice) este total inutila pe Windows XP / Windows 64 deoarece ele stiu sa gestioneze maxim 2 procesoare fizice + 2 logice (gen HT de la Intel). Rezultatele proaste in configuratia 2 x dual core dovedesc acest lucru.
– In unele aplicatii trecerea de la single la dual core aduce cu sine un bonus de aproape 100% performanta, arhitectura K8 aratandu-si „coltii” in acest moment.
P.S. NO Flame
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
Propun ca acest thread sa fie facut sticky, sa il vada toti cand vor sa discute ceva pe aceasta tema, sa nu se mai imprastie prin tot forumul opinii referitoare la acest subiect.
„Intel’s director of chipset marketing Sunil Kumar: “First dual-core desktop processors will utilize the existing FSB architecture operating at 800MHz, but their second and third generations will have faster FSBs.” ”
” Q: Since Intel is going to dual-core and then multi-core processors, higher bus bandwidth becomes more critical. How does the company plan to improve the FSB (front side bus) technology for the desktop processors?
A: So far, our plan is to scale the FSB frequency as next generations of dual-core desktop processors come out. At first, they will utilize the existing FSB architecture operating at 800MHz, but second- and third-generation dual-core desktop processors will have faster FSBs. There are many levers to improve system performance. Opening up system bandwidth on the chipset is one way as more devices interact with the PC. On the CPU side you can increase cache, for increased Hyper-Threading capabilities or additional cores.”
Don’t piss me off. i’m running out of places to hide the bodies.
Cei de la AMD nu pomenesc nimic de aceasta platforma in cazul procesoarelor dual-core.Pe 940 se face un update de BIOS,pe 939 un mare semn de intrebare.
Tot un update de bios se va face si pentru 939. Compatibilitatea cu socket 939/940 este un atu in strategia AMD Dual Core. In principiu cine are acum o placa 939 va putea face upgrade la un procesor Dual-Core Desktop.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
Ramane totusi o problema nerezolvata DDR2.Poate ca update-ul de BIOS va rezolva aceasta situatie dar cu siguranta pentru DDR2 va fi nevoie de o alta placa de baza si asta costa..
DDR2 pe moment nu este necesar pentru K8, acesta avand nevoie de memorie cu latente cat mai scazute fata de frecvente si latente mari specifice DDR2. Urmatorul pas in evolutia K8 va fi un core cu pipeline marit ce ii va permite obtinerea de frecvente superioare si care va beneficia mai bine de DDR2. In acel moment se va schimba si socket-ul (nume de cod M2 si va avea probabil peste 1200 pini), data de lansare este undeva prin sfarsit 2006-inceput 2007.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
INTEL ROADMAPS seen by the INQ show that when Intel introduces its Presler 65 nanometre dual core processors in the first quarter of next year, the chips will be named the 9XX series. Intel expects to launch several flavours of these processors, which will have 2 times 2MB of cache, and will initially aim them at the „performance” end of the market.
These Pentium Ds will come with Vanderpool VT virtualisation technology, use the Broadwater chipset, include Intel GbE LAN, and the next generation of AMT.
Clock speeds will be de-emphasised – the 95X will clock at 3.40GHz, while the other three members of this family will have clock speeds of 3.20GHz, 3GHz, and 2.8GHz. All will use the 800MHz front side bus.
The processors set for launch in the second quarter, that is to say the dual core 840, the 830 and the 820 will cost $530, $316 and $241 respectively. The 670 processor, a single core 3.8GHz Pentium 4 with hyperthreading will cost $850 when it’s launched.
Intel is readying a series of price cuts on the 6XX family in mid-August, with the 670 falling to $605, the 660 to $400, the 650 to $273, the 640 to $224 and the 630 to $180. These have clock speeds of 3.8GHz, 3.6GHz, 3.4GHz, 3.2GHz and 3GHz.
Intel is now expected to launch the 351/350 Celeron at the end of June. This has a 533MHz bus, 256K of L2 cache, and clocks at 3.2GHz. It will cost $125 at launch. µ
Ceva este ciudat totusi. Proces de constructie 65nm, consum de curent automat mai redus si frecventa maxima este tot 3,4Ghz ?
. Ma asteptam sa mai creasca un pic frecventele fata de Dual Core 90nm.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
Ce se intampla acum sunt decizii luate prin 2002-2003.Din pacate nu erau cele mai bune dupa cum se vede.Anyway conducerea Intel a fost schimbata fundamental , mai nou departamentul tehnic > marketing.
Caz nefericit a fost Tejas.Se stia in 2002 ca va avea un consum incendiar ( circa 150w 3.2 Ghz , 170w 3.6Ghz ) si totusi proiectul a mers pana in 2004 in loc sa fie abandonat instantaneu.
Nu este nici un secret, dupa introducerea procesoarelor Opteron Dual Core, este randul Athlon 64 Dual Core pe socket 939. Acesta a primit un nume official: AMD Athlon 64 X2 si au apraut si ceva rating-uri:
Nu se stie inca daca procesoarele vor avea 512KB sau 1MB L2 cache/core.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
Daca se mentine chestia cu PR-ul, e o mare prostie dupa mine. Capacitatea in aplicatii single-threaded nu are cum sa creasca. La nivel arhitectural nu stiu ce poate fi schimbat. Cache-ul nu e shared, deci un singur core nu poate sa foloseasca mai mult de 1Mb L2 cache. Iar un A64 la 2.4Ghz cu 1Mb L2 cache este un A64 4000+. Insa vom vedea cum sta treaba mai incolo.
Chestia cu PR 4800+ poate fi justificata doar intr-un singur caz: memoria L2 va fi shared, si asta inseamna ca in aplicatiile single thread 1 Core va avea la dispozitie 2MB L2 cache. Totate indiciile indica spre acestu lucru si este posibil ca Opteron sa nu aiba shared cache din moment ce mai toate aplicatiile rulate pe un server sunt multithread (cache sharing neavand nici un rost pe Opteron).
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
Corbu , la K8 cacheul L2 nu este shared.Dintre procesoarele pt dektop&mobile doar Yonah are cache L2 shared.
Bagi mana in foc? Altfel mi se par aberante ratingurile alea….nu cred ca ar putea fi chiar asa de „nesimtiti” si sa le umfle fara nici o noima.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
„According to some documents seen by the INQ, the dual core CPUs should work with 955X and 945 chipsets only but I am sure that there will be some workarounds to make the other chipsets work with newer cores eventually. We know for sure that at least Nforce 4 for Intel will support dual cores.”
Interesante vesti. Este normal ca Intel sa incerce sa rezolve „problema Dual-Core” doar printr-un update de BIOS, insa in acest caz, chipset-urile 945 si 955X nu ar mai avea succesul scontat. Practic, tactica AMD a incurcat putin planurile de marketing ale Intel, si anume promovarea unor noi chipset-uri. Oricum, pentru cei care au Intel si vor sa treaca la Dual-Core pe viitor, acest zvon(daca se va adeveri) reprezinta un motiv de bucurie.
Bagi mana in foc? Altfel mi se par aberante ratingurile alea….nu cred ca ar putea fi chiar asa de „nesimtiti” si sa le umfle fara nici o noima.
Daca vrei facem si pariu.
Un shared cache are mai multe avantaje decat cacheuri separate/nucleu , insa este mult mai dificil de proiectat.Din cate stiu doar IBM cu Power 4/5 si SUN cu UltraSparc IV au cache L2 shared.
Asa grait-a Corbu’ //Ceva este ciudat totusi. Proces de constructie 65nm, consum de curent automat mai redus si frecventa maxima este tot 3,4Ghz ?
. Ma asteptam sa mai creasca un pic frecventele fata de Dual Core 90nm.//
Miniaturizarea tehnologiei de fabricare nu inseamna automat frecvente mai mari. De la un anumit punct incolo, apar alte probleme … e clar ca aparitia dual core se datoreaza si acestora, altfel cursa pentru frecvente mai mari continua.
Pana cand nu apare un alt sistem de frabricare, sau un concept de procesor nou, nu cred sa vedem procesoare cu frecvente peste 4000 Mhz. Un concept nou ar putea sa marginalizeze total acceptiunea curenta privind raportul frecventa/performanta.
Chestia cu PR 4800+ poate fi justificata doar intr-un singur caz: memoria L2 va fi shared, si asta inseamna ca in aplicatiile single thread 1 Core va avea la dispozitie 2MB L2 cache.
Chiar si asa, 800 puncte de PR sunt cam multe pentru un plus de 1MB L2. Io zic ca ar trebui sa-l cheme Athlon D 4000+, asa cum Pentium-urile vor fi numite Pentium D (de la dual).
Chestia cu PR 4800+ poate fi justificata doar intr-un singur caz: memoria L2 va fi shared, si asta inseamna ca in aplicatiile single thread 1 Core va avea la dispozitie 2MB L2 cache.
Chiar si asa, 800 puncte de PR sunt cam multe pentru un plus de 1MB L2. Io zic ca ar trebui sa-l cheme Athlon D 4000+, asa cum Pentium-urile vor fi numite Pentium D (de la dual).
Eventual Athlon 64 D 4000+.
Athlon 64 D ar fi cam acelasi lucru cu varianta actuala Athlon 64 x2. Ideea e ca si Intel a renuntat la sufixul 4, iar Smithfield-ul se va chema Pentium D, nu Pentium4 D, tocmai pentru a se deosebi mai bine.
Today Intel officially announced that Alienware, Dell and Velocity Micro launched sales of new PCs and workstations on company´s dual-core processors.
The first dual-core platform includes Intel Pentium XE 840 3.2GHz CPU and Intel® 955X Express chipset.
THE WORLD+DOG already knows that AMD has its Opteron dual-core CPUs ready and that it’s set to launch them tomorrow. But not many know that AMD is launching dual-core desktop CPUs as well.
You do now.
We saw a document in which an AMD official states that it will launch those CPUs tomorrow and that it will brand them AMD Athlon 64 X2 with speed variations of 4200+, 4400+, 4600+ and fastest at 4800+. We don’t know their actual clock speeds.
AMD says production-ready CPUs are now shipping to some leading OEMs and system builders world-wide. General system availability is scheduled for June, we learned.
The chippery will be available for both mobile (Desk top replacement) and desktop computers and feature enhanced virus protection and ‘Cool ‘n’ Quiet’ declocking marchitecture.
Se pare ca Intel are un concurent redutabil pe piata dual core. AMD va fi singurul reprezentant DUAL CORE pe piata serverelor, dar si pe piata mobile (Pentium M Yonah dual-core fiind destul de departe).
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
Un aspect inca necunoscut in ceea ce priveste Dual-Core pentru desktop: pretul. Daca acesta va fi competitiv, AMD este in carti pe segmentul Dual-Core. Vom vedea cel mai probabil maine.
Se pare ca AMD a decis activarea HT(HyperThreading) la procesoarele Dual-Core(cel putin asa sustin cei de la x86-secret).
„By attentively studying the behavior of a Dual Core Athlon 64, we realized that a very interesting characteristic of the upcoming Desktop Dual Core chip from AMD was hidden. In fact, if the K8 marchitecture cannot support the Intel’s HyperThreading (HT) technology, it seems that the CPUID registers of the processor are not of this opinion.
…..
So, It seems that AMD chose to activate the „HyperThreading” bit on those Athlon 64 Desktop CPUs in order to profit from optimizations already done by many programmers for HyperThreading technology. This will make possible for those upcoming Athlon 64 Dual Core to also benefit from work already carried out. For now, we do not know yet if the Dual Core Opterons will also have this bit active.”
Interesanta chestie….totusi, ma intreb de ce nu au activat HT-ul la procesoarele Single-Core.
Din pacate, nu avem parte momentan de A64 Dual-Core la frecvente de 1.8-2Ghz, modele care ar fi accesibile din punct de vedere al pretului. La capitolul performanta AMD sta bine, modelul de top 4800+ neavand concurent din partea Intel pe piata Dual-Core(nici nu cred ca va avea pe 90nm – ar trebui un Smithfield Dual-Core cu doua nuclee tactate la 3.8Ghz sau chiar mai sus poate, lucru care pare posibil doar pe un proces de 65nm). Cateva observatii pro si contra:
-AMD a reusit sa scoata modele Dual-Core pana la 2.4Ghz, ceea ce este un aspect pozitiv in conditiile in care pentru Single Core, frecventa maxima este 2.6Ghz(probabil AMD nu anunta inca Dual-Core la 2.6Ghz din motive de marketing, pozitionand FX55 drept cel mai performant procesor pentru Gaming la ora actuala – nu este exclus sa vedem insa Dual-Core la 2.6Ghz odata cu aparitia lui FX57 – oricum, momentan AMD nu simte presiune din partea Intel pe nici unul dintre cele doua segmente, deci lansarile respective vor avea loc mai incolo).
Interesanta chestie….totusi, ma intreb de ce nu au activat HT-ul la procesoarele Single-Core.
de cand folosesc NW nu mai reusesc sa stau fara el..
Dai un ban dar stai in fata…..
Daca AMD ar veni cu o solutie viabila, altfel ar sta lucrurile. Asa se intampla cand nu ai concurenti seriosi pe piata mobile(cel putin din punct de vedere al vanzarilor).
Din contra, HT-ul este gratis pentru AMD. Intel si AMD au semnat acum multi ani un acord care le permite sa foloseasca tehnologiile „adversarului”. Astfel Intel este liber sa adatpeze 64 BIT, NX-Bit, etc, iar AMD are tot dreptul sa implementeze HT daca are nevoie. In lipsa acestui acord, iesea de mult praf si pulbere prin tribunale.
Singura eventuala „problema” care ramane este cea morala si de imagine: cine copiaza pe cine? Totusi in ziua de astazi se pare ca nu prea mai reprezinta un obstacol, goana dupa bani fiind la putere.
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
La preturile alea vor fi de neatins de 99% din userii acestui forum si din Romania in general. Brusc Intel nu mai pare sa aiba asa preturi indecente
OVERCLOCKING -> The process of installing high hopes, dumb luck, and several paychecks into a rectangular box which transmits a signal to a screen that displays your fate.
The outcome is usually depressing.
La preturile alea vor fi de neatins de 99% din userii acestui forum si din Romania in general. Brusc Intel nu mai pare sa aiba asa preturi indecente
Modelele la 2.2Ghz respectiv 2.4Ghz sunt considerate modele de top si nu vor avea concurenta din partea Intel pentru moment, asa cum am mai spus-o. Vor fi lansate cu siguranta si modele la 1.8Ghz respectiv 2Ghz la preturi competitive. Un Dual-Core la 2Ghz este pe aceeasi treapta de performanta cu un Intel Dual Core la 3.2Ghz(varianta cu 2x1Mb L2 cache este chiar mai performanta).
Later edit: Am parcurs review-ul celor de la Anandtech si pot sa spun ca lucrurile stau exact cum m-am asteptat in ceea ce priveste performanta, ba chiar am fost surprins in mod placut. Trecerea la DDR2 va insemna un pas inainte. Lucrurile arata extrem de bine pentru AMD. Pretul este momentan problema, insa eu sunt de parere ca vom avea si modele mai ieftine.
„On the desktop side, we are extremely excited about the Athlon 64 X2. The 4400+ we compared here today had no problem competing with and outperforming Intel’s fastest dual core CPUs in most cases, and at a price of $581 the 4400+ is the more reasonably priced of the X2 CPUs. ”
„What’s quite impressive is how competitive the Athlon 64 X2 is across the board. With the Pentium D we had to give up a noticeable amount of single threaded performance (compared to Intel’s top of the line Pentium 4 CPUs) in order to get better multithreaded/multitasking performance, but with AMD you don’t have to make that sacrifice. Everything from gaming to compiling performance on the Athlon 64 X2 4400+ was extremely solid. In multithreaded/multitasking environments the Athlon 64 X2 is even more impressive; video encoding is no longer an issue on AMD platforms – you no longer have to make a performance decision between great overall performance or great media encoding performance, AMD delivers both with the Athlon 64 X2. Also keep in mind that the performance preview we gave of the Athlon 64 X2 today is actually a very conservative estimate, the shipping Athlon 64 X2 CPUs will run with regular DDR memory and with much faster motherboards – meaning you should be prepared to be impressed even further down the road.”
AMD’s dual-core Opteron processors are extremely well executed on all fronts, based on what we’ve seen. AMD’s dual-core design has a technical elegance that Intel’s can’t match, and that design brings superior performance. @
Interesanta chestie….totusi, ma intreb de ce nu au activat HT-ul la procesoarele Single-Core.
Din cate am inteles eu din articol e vorba doar de un flag, un flag care afirma ca procesorul e capabil de hyperthreading. E o miscare interesanta(de geniu as spune) din partea AMD, avand un procesor dual core care e de fapt capabil de multithreading real e clar ca e capabil si de hyperthreading(care e un fake multithreading). Activand acel flag aplicatiile optimizate HT(initial optimizate pt procesoare Intel) vor functiona in regim HT si pe AMD dual core, deci AMD va beneficia de un bonus de performanta de pe urma optimizarilor facute pentru procesoare Intel. Asta numesc eu sa folosesti armele inamicului impotriva sa.
sa zicem ca Intel a avut si are mai multa nevoie de Ht decat AMD datorita faptului ca P4 in deosebi prescott are un pipeline mult mai lung. HT’ul ajuta intr-o masura destul de semnificativa procesorul in multithreading.
pt ca tzeava se descarca mult mai repede.
Oare cum s-ar descurca un Dothan cu facilitatile pe care le are P4 ? Pentru ca, folosind un bus de 533 MHz, fara Dual channel sau HT, reuseste sa se bata cu P4 la frecvente cu ~50% mai mari ? Si se pare ca momentan detine si recordul la super pi 1M.
